Taradiddles or 'I had a very careful thing I said'

NoHoldsBarred
William Jefferson Clinton, President of the United States of America

NoHoldsBarred
http://www.lakesregion.net
 
TARADIDDLES
OR
"I HAVE A VERY CAREFUL THING I SAID"


By William Jefferson Clinton,
President of the United States of America


The Wizard of Is

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the -- if he -- if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not -- that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement. . . . Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."
From Grand Jury Testimony of WJC


Who Are You With When You're Alone

"[I]t depends on how you define alone.... [T]here were a lot of times when we were alone, but I never really thought we were."
From Grand Jury Testimony of WJC


"I had a very careful thing I said"

"I met with certain people, and [to] a few of them I said I didn't have sex with Monica Lewinsky, or I didn't have an affair with her or something like that. I had a very careful thing I said, and I tried not to say anything else . . . . I remember that I issued a number of denials to people that I thought needed to hear them, but I tried to be careful and to be accurate.... 

"And I believe, sir, that -- you'll have to ask them what they thought. But I was using those terms in the normal way people use them.... 

"[I said] things that were true about this relationship. That I used -- in the language I used, I said, there's nothing going on between us. That was true. I said I did not have sex with her as I defined it. That was true.... I said things that were true. They may have been misleading, and if they were I have to take responsibility for it, and I'm sorry."

From Grand Jury Testimony of WJC

"Let me remind you, sir, I read this carefully"

The President also maintained that none of his sexual contacts with Ms. Lewinsky constituted "sexual relations" within a specific definition used in the Jones deposition. Under that definition:

[A] person engages in "sexual relations" when the person knowingly engages in or causes -- (1) contact with the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person . . . . "Contact" means intentional touching, either directly or through clothing. 
According to what the President testified was his understanding, this definition "covers contact by the person being deposed with the enumerated areas, if the contact is done with an intent to arouse or gratify," but it does not cover oral sex performed on the person being deposed. He testified: 
[I]f the deponent is the person who has oral sex performed on him, then the contact is with -- not with anything on that list, but with the lips of another person. It seems to be self-evident that that's what it is. . . . Let me remind you, sir, I read this carefully.
In the President's view, "any person, reasonable person" would recognize that oral sex performed on the deponent falls outside the definition. 

If Ms. Lewinsky performed oral sex on the President, then -- under this interpretation -- she engaged in sexual relations but he did not. The President refused to answer whether Ms. Lewinsky in fact had performed oral sex on him. He did testify that direct contact with Ms. Lewinsky's breasts or genitalia would fall within the definition, and he denied having had any such contact.

From the Starr Report


"I knew something was up."

When the President was questioned about this meeting with Ms. Currie in the grand jury, he testified that he recalled the conversation, but he denied that he was "trying to get Betty Currie to say something that was untruthful." Rather, the President testified that he asked a "series of questions" in an effort to quickly "refresh [his] memory." The President explained: "I wanted to establish . . . that Betty was there at all other times in the complex, and I wanted to know what Betty's memory was about what she heard, what she could hear . . . . [a]nd I was trying to figure [it] out . . . in a hurry because I knew something was up.") 

In his grand jury testimony, the President acknowledged that, "in fairness," Ms. Currie "may have felt some ambivalence about how to react" to his statements. The President maintained that he was trying to establish that Ms. Currie was "always there," and could see and hear everything. At the same time, he acknowledged that he had always tried to prevent Ms. Currie from learning about his relationship with Ms. Lewinsky. "[I] did what people do when they do the wrong thing. I tried to do it where nobody else was looking at it."

From the Starr Report


"I'm staying on my former statement about that"

Q: The question is, if Monica Lewinsky says that while you were in the Oval Office area you touched her breasts would she by lying? 

A: That is not my recollection. My recollection is that I did not have sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky and I'm staying on my former statement about that. . . . My, my statement is that I did not have sexual relations as defined by that. 

Q: If she says that you kissed her breasts, would she be lying? 

A: I'm going to revert to my former statement [that is, the prepared statement denying "sexual relations"]. 

Q: Okay. If Monica Lewinsky says that while you were in the Oval Office area you touched her genitalia, would she be lying? And that calls for a yes, no, or reverting to your former statement. 

A: I will revert to my former statement on that.... 

Q: So touching, in your view then and now -- the person being deposed touching or kissing the breast of another person would fall within the definition? 

A: That's correct, sir. 

Q: And you testified that you didn't have sexual relations with Monica Lewinsky in the Jones deposition, under that definition, correct? 

A: That's correct, sir. 

Q: If the person being deposed touched the genitalia of another person, would that be -- and with the intent to arouse the sexual desire, arouse or gratify, as defined in definition (1), would that be, under your understanding then and now -- 

A: Yes, sir. 

Q: -- sexual relations. 

A: Yes, sir. 

Q: Yes it would? 

A: Yes it would. If you had a direct contact with any of these places in the body, if you had direct contact with intent to arouse or gratify, that would fall within the definition. 

Q: So you didn't do any of those three things -- 

A: You -- 

Q: -- with Monica Lewinsky. 

A: You are free to infer that my testimony is that I did not have sexual relations, as I understood this term to be defined. 

Q: Including touching her breast, kissing her breast, touching her genitalia? 

A: That's correct. 
 

From Grand Jury Testimony of WJC


"No specific recollection"

Q: . . . At any time were you and Monica Lewinsky together alone in the Oval Office? 

[videotape shows approximately five-second pause before answer] 

WJC: I don't recall, but as I said, when she worked at the legislative affairs office, they always had somebody there on the weekends. I typically worked some on the weekends. Sometimes they'd bring me things on the weekends. She -- it seems to me she brought things to me once or twice on the weekends. In that case, whatever time she would be in there, drop it off, exchange a few words and go, she was there. I don't have any specific recollections of what the issues were, what was going on, but when the Congress is there, we're working all the time, and typically I would do some work on one of the days of the weekends in the afternoon. 

Q: So I understand, your testimony is that it was possible, then, that you were alone with her, but you have no specific recollection of that ever happening? 

WJC: Yes, that's correct. It's possible that she, in, while she was working there, brought something to me and that at the time she brought it to me, she was the only person there. That's possible. 

Q: At any time were you and Monica Lewinsky alone in the hallway between the Oval Office and this kitchen area? 

WJC: I don't believe so, unless we were walking back to the back dining room with the pizza. I just, I don't remember. I don't believe we were alone in the hallway, no. 

The President was then asked about any times he may have been alone in any room with Ms. Lewinsky: 

Q: At any time have you and Monica Lewinsky ever been alone together in any room of the White House? 

WJC: I think I testified to that earlier. I think that there is a, it is -- I have no specific recollection, but it seems to me that she was on duty on a couple of occasions working for the legislative affairs office and brought me some things to sign, something on the weekend. That's -- I have a general memory of that.

From Civil Deposition of WJC

The President offered several responses


At his grand jury appearance, the President also was asked about his counsel's statement to Judge Wright that Ms. Lewinsky's affidavit denying a "sexual relationship" was equivalent to saying "there is absolutely no sex of any kind in any manner, shape or form" with President Clinton.... [T]he President was asked how he lawfully could have sat silent while his attorney -- in the President's presence and on his behalf -- made a false statement to a United States District Judge in an effort to forestall further questioning. The President offered several responses.

First, the President maintained that he was not paying "much attention" when Mr. Bennett said that there is "absolutely no sex of any kind" between the President and Ms. Lewinsky." The President further stated: "That moment, that whole argument just passed me by. I was a witness." The President's explanation is difficult to reconcile with the videotape of the deposition, which shows that the President was looking in Mr. Bennett's direction when his counsel made this statement. 

Alternatively, the President contended that when Mr. Bennett said that "there is absolutely no sex of any kind," Mr. Bennett was speaking only in the present tense and thus was making a completely true statement. The President further stated: "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is," and that "actually, in the present tense that is an accurate statement".... The President's suggestion that he might have engaged in such a detailed parsing of the words at his deposition is at odds with his assertion that the "whole argument passed me by." 

Finally, the President took issue with the notion that he had any duty to prevent his attorney from making a false statement to Judge Wright: "Mr. Bennett was representing me. I wasn't representing him."

From the Starr Report


I, POTUS, am not just any person

The President said that by receiving oral sex, he would not "engage in" or "cause" contact with the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of "any person" because "any person" really means "any other person." The President further testified before the grand jury: "[I]f the deponent is the person who has oral sex performed on him, then the contact is with -- not with anything on that list, but with the lips of another person." 

The President's linguistic parsing is unreasonable. Under the President's interpretation (which he says he followed at his deposition), in an oral sex encounter, one person is engaged in sexual relations, but the other person is not engaged in sexual relations.

From the Starr Report


No sex, depending on Ms. Lewinsky's state of mind

The President also maintained that Ms. Lewinsky's affidavit, as it ultimately was filed denying a "sexual relationship," was not necessarily inaccurate. He testified that, depending on Ms. Lewinsky's state of mind, her statement denying a sexual relationship could have been true. 

"I believe at the time that she filled out this affidavit, if she believed that the definition of sexual relationship was two people having intercourse, then this is accurate. And I believe that is the definition that most ordinary Americans would give it."

From the Starr Report


I Didn't Force Her

The definition used at the President's deposition also covers acts in which the deponent "cause[d] contact" with the genitalia or anus of "any person." When he testified to the grand jury, the President said that this aspect of the definition still does not cover his receiving oral sex. The President said that the word "cause" implies "forcing to me" and "forcible abusive behavior."  And thus the President said that he did not lie under oath in denying that he "caused" contact with the genitalia of any person because his activity with Ms. Lewinsky did not include any nonconsensual behavior.
From the Starr Report


 
 

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